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Star Wars Episode VIII: Tactical or Character Development
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Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Questions and Suggestions » Star Wars Episode VIII: Tactical or Character Development
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Alatáriël Pallanén
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 Post Posted: Tue, July 25th 2006 08:04pm    Post subject: Star Wars Episode VIII: Tactical or Character Development
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I love the blend of Star Wars VIII, but I believe its time to be a little more realistic. We have become more character development than tactical, and I think people have begun to play more because it.

The fact that a player can now join both sides of the war makes the tactical portion harder to control, but it has brought a unity to the forums in a new way. Instead of the bias opinions we once had towards other sides, we are beginning to make new sets of friends. :P

I for one, believe we should reduce the tactical portion of this game and change to a more character developed type of a RPG.

Last year, during my leave of VII, I experimented with several other Star Wars RPG, the one that affected me the most and had a massive on line community was that the battles were predetermined. Meaning you knew if you were going to lose that fight, or win it. Normally character loses were prohibited, so the way and manner which you escaped was typically up to the players. [Of course several admins kept it under control, but we never had an incident where someone ran straight into an escape pod...or strapped on a space suit and floated into space. :P ]

My point is that perhaps the battles here could be pre-determined. Not all, but some. Character development would be awesome if the Empire/Rebel lost some core worlds. It would be kinda nice to have some victory for our characters instead of fearing the odds of 1:200 chance of surviving round 45; lol, you get my point.



ANOTHER THING, was that the admins kept the plotline up to the players. They gave four possible ways the RPG could move, and everyone voted on the one they wanted. The way CMAC does it, though not terribly bad AT ALL, is somewhat secretive. I love the surprises and twists, but sometimes I would like to be involved in the major decision in how the RPG is going.

Any ways, just a recent thought on a possible way to change VIII, but I'm not complaining with how it is set up now.
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Volytar
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 Post Posted: Tue, July 25th 2006 08:16pm    Post subject:
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While predetermined battles are fun, and I have yet to experience a battle on this board the tactical part is where the millitary characters are developing themselves, if something is predetirmined then we actually loose control of the plot.

Which makes me look on your suggestion as slightly odd, you say this site allowed the players to influence the plot, yet if every battle is predetermined you cannot prevent invasions through tactical guil.


Last edited by Volytar on Tue, July 25th 2006 09:14pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alatáriël Pallanén
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 Post Posted: Tue, July 25th 2006 08:19pm    Post subject:
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I see your point...

hm, this is difficult.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Tue, July 25th 2006 10:01pm    Post subject:
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Also, very rarely do we make any major plots among CMAC... the close of VII was one, because, well... I dunno. :p But for the most part, everything is unscripted and unpredictable.
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Nevin Antilles
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 Post Posted: Tue, July 25th 2006 10:19pm    Post subject:
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Yeah, CMAC actually doesn't do much in the plot unless we need to.

Awhile back, we were thinking that predetermined battles would be possible if the two fighters and their faction leaders agree to a certain number of casualities and losses and can be done without the battlesystem, but I would not recommend it at all.

Also, VII-VIII has always been a character development RPG with the ability to stage battles. That's how I look at it anyway.
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Ravik Shadowstalker
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:24am    Post subject:
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Er, Nevin and Ams, I don't think you guys can list too many major plots that have gone on that didn't involve one of Han's and both of your many alts. Of course, there are lots of stories going on that you guys don't have any involvement in, but anything involving the war or any politics, its Leia or Ams almost always. Perhaps non-CMAC players should be the faction leaders?

Actually, I think thats what I'm getting at. Really, why did the war have to end in the first place? If it wasn't for Ams and Leia, the war woulda broken out again very quickly. If it stopped at all. I'm not complaining, really, just stating an observation.
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Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:27am    Post subject:
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War gets boring. :p So we tried something new.
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Ravik Shadowstalker
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:28am    Post subject:
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But if people didn't want the war to end... :P
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Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:35am    Post subject:
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BTW, for the record... I am not the Imperial faction leader. :p
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Space Jawa
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:45am    Post subject:
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But you're pretty darn close. And since Vader doesn't make a whole lot of apperances...
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Han Solo
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:49am    Post subject:
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Ravik Shadowstalker wrote:
But if people didn't want the war to end... :P


That's the thing. People did want the war to end. Sure, it wasn't everyone, but there were a lot of people in agreement. And everything that unfolded with the treaty happened naturally. We had nothing planned out concerning that and just went with the flow.

As for faction leaders - they aren't all CMAC. The only CMAC faction leaders can be found in the Alliance(Cray and myself). Every other faction is run by a regular user like you.

Back to the original topic, I personally could care less about the war. I'm one of those people that would rather focus solely on character development and let the war just be something interesting in the background. That's one of the main reasons you hardly see any of my characters out on the battlefield. They're always involved with personal matters or something along those lines.

That's my $.02 anyway.

EDIT:

Space Jawa wrote:
But you're pretty darn close. And since Vader doesn't make a whole lot of apperances...


But even if he was a faction leader, that's only TWO factions out of the entire game run by a CMAC member. That ain't half bad if you ask me.
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Jahan Stresemann
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 04:14am    Post subject:
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Quote:
But even if he was a faction leader, that's only TWO factions out of the entire game run by a CMAC member. That ain't half bad if you ask me.


For a total of 80-90% of the game's economy and 70% of the military. Yeah, not bad.
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Colin Brokna
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 06:58am    Post subject:
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The problem with the set-up is that no-one role-plays with anyone else, everyone is at their own little corner. We need to arrange into little groups so no-one has nothing to do.

Pre-determined battles sound cool aswell.
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Moff says:
Cray's both!
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That's how he plays Nevin AND Leia so well.
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I takeit you've have one of your usual CMAC fights about this?
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Jahan Stresemann
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 07:06am    Post subject:
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We need to get people to RP together, agreed. But how? It's impossible to have a good sneak around some enemy base because people lay on entire divisions to defend places and use impermeable shields and build ships with no weak points.

It's sensible planning by all parties, but sensible does not a story make.
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Tiara Tranada
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 07:12am    Post subject:
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Very true, which is why I'm waiting for Katarn to attack Coruscant to free Solo *smirks*.
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Nevin Antilles
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 01:31pm    Post subject:
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...that's another problem. It happened A LOT last game. People who didn't even have the decency to consult the player in question went on some giant tirade that directly crossed their plot. Examples are The Breakfast, Lusankya, Cassie, Flint, and the trial. In those instances, there were many people arriving and trying to save the day, sometimes godmodding.

Is that against the rules? No, not really, but it's very inconsiderate. Some people have their plots planned, and one should at least ask before he interferes. I know I was getting quite annoyed at the end of VII.

Quote:
Er, Nevin and Ams, I don't think you guys can list too many major plots that have gone on that didn't involve one of Han's and both of your many alts. Of course, there are lots of stories going on that you guys don't have any involvement in, but anything involving the war or any politics, its Leia or Ams almost always. Perhaps non-CMAC players should be the faction leaders?

Actually, I think thats what I'm getting at. Really, why did the war have to end in the first place? If it wasn't for Ams and Leia, the war woulda broken out again very quickly. If it stopped at all. I'm not complaining, really, just stating an observation.


As others have said, the war was getting EXTREMELY boring. Plus, Ams and Leia are very high members of their respective governments. It's kind of their decision to make, and that's why they appear in politics. :p That wasn't a CMAC plot. The only CMAC plot was what happened from Flint's death onward. The treaty, Nevin/Ams and all that was just our own, personal plot like everyone else. Yes, we are admins, but we can't stop being players either.
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Ravik Shadowstalker
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 02:17pm    Post subject:
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But Nevin, that's my point. And, who REALLY controls the Empire? Who does all the decision making and upkeeping?

Although I definetly agree that people shouldn't interfere on other people's plotlines without asking.

Especially to the god modding *Grumbles something about his Imperial Palace and Zekk*
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"The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able function as a soldier is supposed to function.Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it"



Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.


Last edited by Ravik Shadowstalker on Wed, July 26th 2006 02:18pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nevin Antilles
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 02:25pm    Post subject:
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Swali is the faction leader of the Empire, but I suppose Moff does a lot, yes. And I know CMAC members control the Alliance, but I don't really see a problem with that. All of the other factions have non-CMAC leadership. Plus, we don't control the Alliance as CMAC members, we control it as Alliance leaders. Sometimes we'll cooperate for plot purposes, but that's all.
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Ravik Shadowstalker
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 02:33pm    Post subject:
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True. I'm really not sure what I'm trying to get it. But anyway, to stay on topic, perhaps the players should have a vote? But ONLY the ones that it has any sort of effect over. I shouldn't be able to vote, I don't have the tactical fights.

You could still have character development in predetermined ones? You could still be strategic in the battles, of course the motivation to do so would be nil.
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"The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able function as a soldier is supposed to function.Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it"



Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.
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Nevin Antilles
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 02:38pm    Post subject:
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You could, but as I said, I would not recommend doing it unless everyone is in full and total agreement. As we all know, full and total agreement doesn't happen too much.
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Ravik Shadowstalker
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 02:40pm    Post subject:
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You could do a 2/3 majority or so, like congress on many important things.
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"The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able function as a soldier is supposed to function.Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it"



Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.
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Ravik Shadowstalker
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 Post Posted: Wed, July 26th 2006 02:40pm    Post subject:
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You could do a 2/3 majority or so, like congress on many important things.

I'm not really advocating either of course, I have no knowledge of how either would work effectively.
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"The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able function as a soldier is supposed to function.Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it"



Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.
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Lance Jerik
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 Post Posted: Thu, July 27th 2006 08:54pm    Post subject:
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I'd like predetermined battles, but that's just because I still have yet to actually fight a battle(chickened out one time, and no one's allowed to fight yet...hint, hint), and because how everything works in the universe sort of bewilders me sometimes... especially all the space stuff (you know, when you guys start talking about Unu-IIs, and Akula-MCXIIs). Plus, whenever I'm in a battle outside of a battle system, I find I'm either confused as hell about everything that's going on, or I want to win but don't want to godmod.

So basically.... HELP. :p
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Gavin Onasi
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 Post Posted: Sat, July 29th 2006 04:13pm    Post subject:
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While I do like how things are going now..... I would like a chance at an attempt to RP... seeing as I can not do it for my life.... I can't type or anything. I am not creative, I am more of a tactician than a RPer, I want to change that but I can't lol.

But to further the CMAC faction leader aspect here is how I view it sometimes; you CMAC are incredibly (spelt wrong I know) busy and backlogged many times. When you are not working on CMAC stuff you are attempting to catch up on character stuff and faction stuff.

Ams has to deal with movements, money transfers and designs and he also runs the empire, that takes up a lot of his time and can help create a backlog.

Cray runs the alliance with han, but when they are busy CMACing the alliance falls behind... far behind and when I (or others) try to attempting to peice things together you need to finish doing the CMAC thing before alliance. I think you should either delegate tasks to other members, or let someone else being the leader and consult you guys for things as you would lead things like Finance or planetary affairs/military affairs.
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Nevin Antilles
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 Post Posted: Sat, July 29th 2006 04:27pm    Post subject:
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Well, we have been trying to delegate responsibility in the Alliance. (for instance, Drost and Dodonna organizing army forces, you and Alex suggesting defenses, etc) The hard part is that the Alliance wasn't designed that way (no one's fault - it's just how it started out) and it's difficult to establish a system so that we know what everyone is doing.
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