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Year-End Meeting, 2008
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Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Announcements » Year-End Meeting, 2008
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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 09:26pm    Post subject: Year-End Meeting, 2008
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Hey everyone! It's that time of year again when we hold our annual meeting. It literally seems like it was just yesterday I posted the one for 2007. I encourage everyone who's involved in SWVIII - and those who have become inactive - to read on, since we have some very important things to discuss. CMAC has no other objective right now than to get the game running again and be fun; we're players too, and we don't like the recent slowdown either.

If you have friends who used to be VIII participants, we'd love if you'd link them to this thread as well, since we'd like to get them involved again. The theme of the year is starting fresh.

Anyway, read on!

Site Statistics

The statistics from this year represent the full year cycle. However, there is a discrepancy of 3 days between this report and last year's, so the current figures are inflated by a small (tiny tiny tiny) amount compared to last year's.

Cycle: Jan 1-Dec 30 2008
Average Bandwidth* Per Month: 1.76 gigabytes
Total Bandwidth in the Period: 21.13 gigabytes
Busiest Month: April (2.69 gigabytes)
# of [successful] Hits (Page Loads): 4,266,670
Most Visited Page (for December): http://swviii.swrpgs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3111
Most Popular Browser: Firefox is above IE, finally!
Most Popular Referrer: I have no idea if the first one is safe, so I won't link it; #2 has 8% of all referrals, and that's http://swgb.heavengames.com

Last Cycle: Jan 1-Dec 27 2007

Average Bandwidth* Per Month: 2.37 gigabytes
Total Bandwidth in the Period: 28.48 gigabytes
Busiest Month: May (4.37 gigabytes)
# of [successful] Hits (Page Loads): 4266837
Most Visited Page (for December): /forums/viewtopic.php
Most Popular Browser: Internet Explorer 7
Most Popular Referrer: A porn site...

*Bandwidth is the amount of data transferred between the server and you.

Technical/Managerial Summary for 2008

Technical Update
As some of you know, on the technical side of things, not much has been seemingly made. A lot of this comes from Cray's inactivity and lack of time to devote to web design products over the year, but he offers no excuse for a year of very little updating. However, not all is bad; throughout the year, the same staff that designs SWRPGS (that is, Cray and Zara) designed http://antiheroescomic.com.

The nature of the framework that links many sites (antiheroes.com, swrpgs.net, indolents.com, and a couple others) is common. It means that any work done on one actually gets done, eventually, to everything else. So, through the developments of antiheroescomic.com, the new site for SWVIII has been worked on as well. What exactly was done? Well, an entirely redesigned, home-grown templating system, which is vastly superior to phpBB's, has been designed and will be used on the new site.

The new site will be launched shortly after this meeting. This is, as you know, about a year late. Other, more substantial reasons for the delay were being over-ambitious. The Force system will need to be redesigned. However, the most-requested feature, a Wiki, is running perfectly fine, and will be included from start in the new site!

The new site is all but ready to go. More ambitious plans of linking the forums, the site, and the Wiki all together are currently on hold for the sake of getting the site up. We were preoccupied with getting this feature to work, and it just was not feasible unless we want to spend another year waiting. We'd like to thank Han, for designing the layout of the new site, and Zara, for contributing to the design process of the forums.

More minor issues include the updating of the issues tool, which is currently underway and should be accompanying the launch of the site.
Managerial Update
Zara (Luke Skywalker) was added to the administrative staff early on to assist the ECP (Elected Committee for Plots) in the Ball plot. The Ball plot was successful. The new ECP will be re-elected after New Year's and will focus on pumping out smaller, quicker plots. The ECP should be re-elected every quarter, as was initially intended.

We're happy to announce that Zara, in no small part due to his contributions to the new site (particularly the forums), is now the first new member of CMAC since its formation. We hope his ideas, and his experience in other genres of RPG, will bring new life to the team and help us deal with matters more efficiently.

Reforming for 2009
If you read nothing else, please read this. Recently, CMAC has been discussing the life of the RPG. Obviously, you've all seen that the RPG has been extremely inactive compared to this time last year, or even compared to just a few months ago. Initially, we thought this was a result of the usual summer slump... but it's now winter, and things have only become worse.

So, we're really pulling out all stops. We're encouraging everyone to step back and help us bring the RPG back to life again, and to look at things objectively. A lot of this includes bringing the story aspect back to the forefront; SWVIII has seen, except for the Ball, no "main" storyline that was formed on the fly in SWVII. That isn't to say we're going to make an "official" plot, but so far, SWVIII has just been, generally, a jumble of unrelated minor plots, with no clear defining moments. SWVII had Corulag, the legendary powers DRWP and Lambda, the trial of Flint, the Galactic Ball, and the Lusankya invasion. Those oldies who are still here are able to look back and remember how incredibly fun those times were, and we all desperately want to get back to that.

So, what follows is a list of things that we want to do. We're sure some of it will be controversial, and it took half a year of inactivity to get us all to agree. We want to have a consensus throughout the game before we change these things, so please, read carefully.

Rebalancing the Credit

At the root of the reformation of the economic system is, unsurprisingly, the credit. From the very beginnings of SWVII, the economy of the game, including prices of products and ships, was cobbled together from various sources, which inevitably used different benchmarks. As a result, what we got was a credit that had no consistent value, at all. Money is practically worthless in this game. Factions like the Empire can buy a couple Executors, which are supposed to be just about the most powerful ship in existence (except for a few), without suffering much.

CMAC wants to start from the ground up, creating a new list of buyable items with credit values that reflect the real worth. We also want to re-assess all designs. We will also create a reference chart to explain how much credits are really worth.

Rebalancing Designs

To do the above, we must do several other things. One of these is going over every design ever made to SWVIII, and re-evaluating them.

Why is it that the ISD II, which in the GCW was enough to strike fear into an entire system, is practically a filler starship in SWVIII? Sure, there's been some technical progress... but in a world of Akulas and Executors and Chancellors, an ISD, or an MC90, has about as much use as an oasis on Mustafar.

To resolve this, we want to go back and rebalance all ships. We want to value the superships at the real cost. This means that even the Empire would only be able to afford a handful of the more expensive ships such as Akulas and Executors. This will eliminate the supership problem (being defined as "a single ship that's easy for someone to get that can take on 100 other ships"), and it will lead to smaller, more manageable assets. We hope this will bring SWVIII back down to Earth and make it have a more canon Star Wars feel. Assets will be important, not just waves of blanks that can be thrown at enemies with no real consequence. As a tip, any new designs under this system shouldn't try to be the best at everything; not everything has to be an Imperator to be effective in its role.

No designs will be denied retroactively. However, you may voluntarily retire a design, and Ams has promised that the Empire will be retiring many of its more... ridiculous designs. All designs will be repriced, and some will be altered (for instance, 1000 turbolasers on a ship is... just absolutely ridiculous). If you retire a design, CMAC will offer incentives for doing so.

The new issue submission tool should make it easier to keep track of what designs you've actually submitted. Cray will detail this more when the new site is up.

Wiping the Assets

Now, to do that, we have to do something even more drastic. All faction assets will be wiped to a clean slate.

If you haven't had a heart attack yet, keep reading.

Yes, I just said wiping all faction assets. Ships, troops, money, everything (except planetary ownership). Why is this necessary? Well, I alluded to it before. The smaller factions have problems buying ships that can stand up to the ships of the two major factions, primarily of the Empire. Why is this? It results from the unbalanced nature of the SWVIII credit. It is also caused by inconsistent pricing of designs and a mismatch of values thereof.

So, here is our proposal. After the credit is rebalanced and after all designs have been re-evaluated, repriced, or retired, all factions start from square one. The Empire loses the trillions of credits and the thousands of ships it has, and so does every other faction. Everyone becomes equal. Then, CMAC gives an amount of credits, that is representative of the new credit values, according to how many planets your faction owns, how long you've been in existence, and how much "power" you have. So, in this instance, the Empire and the Alliance will start out with more credits than, say, Nespis, which will have more than the Mandalorians and the Ssi-Ruuk, and so on.

However, that doesn't mean imbalance. Every faction will start at the very beginning, buying ships and troops and whatnot. There will be vastly fewer ships than there are now, and you'll have to make choices strategically and importantly. The Empire may only be able to afford one or two Executors, and the Alliance may only be able to get a handful of Chancellors (and in both cases these ships won't be the superships they are today, after the previous reformation suggestion).

So, in the end, we're essentially hoping to shift down in scale the ships we have today. ISD IIs, Liberators, MC90s, etc. will become relatively more "powerful" than they are now. Chancellors and Executors will also become more powerful; however, they will be vastly reduced in number, to the point that the presence of these in battle is rare. Fighters will finally have strategic value.

Final words
It isn't going to be easy. This is going to take a lot of work on everyone's part. However, we've never had a problem with you great people being afraid to put time and effort in the RPG. We're confident we can get this done, and we're quite welcome to hear what you have to think. We'd rather make concessions than having the game die.

We also hope you all will have tons of fun on the Wiki describing your characters and events. The economic side of the game may have to come to a pause to allow time for these updates, but the goodies of the new site should be enough to keep everyone occupied.

So, I hope you enjoyed the report and some of the plans we have for the coming year. The floor is yours. :)
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Petyr Baelish
Aedile


Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 702

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 09:50pm    Post subject:
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O_O
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 09:58pm    Post subject:
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Ahh, not to be a hardcase, but... can we at least have complete sentences when people respond? :p
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Petyr Baelish
Aedile


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 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 10:48pm    Post subject:
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My O_O was of happy surprise. Everyone back to zero? That's great. Honestly, I loved the frenzy of expansion right when everyone started taking planets and such during the middle of VII, and I hope there's this same flurry of activity that accompanies this reset, reorganizing and restructuring our assets to work inside of this new system.

I, for one, welcome our revalued overlord. :)
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Tiara Tranada
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1364
Location: Svivren

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 10:50pm    Post subject:
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O_O.

The full stop makes it a sentence :P

ahem anywho... my contribution...

I don't speak for everyone who has either left or just stopped posting regularly, but for me the main reason was the fact that Rebellion Security had become more like the Empire than the Empire was. As an example, it was easier for me to land on Coruscant than it was to land on Dathomir, which is ridiculous.

While this is only one incident, it was symptomatic of the way the Rebellion has turned out in regard to security. I'm not knocking Alex directly (despite how it probably appears), he was just being a bit overzealous with the position he was given. To me, it should be about giving and taking, not losing every single encounter you have but not winning them all either. One mission isn't going to be enough to destabilize an entire regime and shouldn't be treated like an apocalyptic event when it isn't.

With respect to the slate-wipage, I agree completely that people should start from scratch, but I an concerned about a negative effect that will have on myself. Throughout the RPG I have amassed a fortune rising from the League of Planets thingy and the remains of the DRWP, both of which were absorbed into the Empire. I built up a criminal enterprise, but ceded it to Nespis shortly before leaving and so at the moment I have jurisdiction over just one planet.

Will the new system take into account how we got to the position we are in, or will it take a snapshot of current assets/influence and provide compensation accordingly?
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Colonel Tiara Tranada
Agent Stentax 666

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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 10:56pm    Post subject:
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Thanks for your posts, guys. I agree; the buying and organization of assets was fun when we first did it, and I hope that'll spur activity too. :)

Tiara, to answer your question about the finances, all factors will be taken into account when you get the money after the re-evaluation period. We'll certainly take everyone's past into account, but we're not just going to do a direct conversion (meaning, we can't just say that you'll get .88 times the money you have now), because that would introduce the same imbalances that might have existed before. Instead, we'll look at your past, your current power, your assets etc, when we decide the new amount, if that makes any sense. For example, if you're in a position now to buy a fleet of freighters, we'd try to keep that the same in the new system. So, in short, yes, everything your character has done will be taken into account.

As for the Alliance Security, thanks for sharing your concerns about that. Hopefully Alex will read the thread and respond accordingly, and there may be some reforms in the Alliance up the road. But for now, we're just focused on fixing the game's systems themselves. If you have any ideas for the Alliance, though, feel free to PM me and Han.
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Carnor Jax
ECP Member/Faction Lieutenant


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Just follow the trail of blood...

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 11:26pm    Post subject:
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I must admit feeling more than a slight bit of apprehension concerning certain key elements, not the least of which is the complete reset of assets. It feels, to my personal point of view, that the work that the Empire and the Rebellion has put into the game will be completely nullified, for the sake of those that may have had less than full concern for the game.

The Empire, with its trillions of credits worth of liquid assets and materials, has only the work of its members to thank for it. The Empire suffered a complete and total reset of all of its assets when the game began, and is at its current moment the wealthiest and most prominent faction in the game. I personally have worked very hard not only at improving the Empire through my characters, but offering assistance to any and all that would ask for it to improve theirs.

I have also tried, with my one Rebel character, to kick-start storylines that would result in updated technology for them as well. After all, it has been around fifty years since the Imperator line has come out, and warfare does not wait that long before coming out with something better. Designs I've handed in personally have not breached the 'supership' classification, yet they are improvements over previous models. An Interceptor based off the best assets of the TIE Defender, but with drawbacks as well. A bomber with increased capacity and targeting because of newer, more efficient power cores. A reconnaissance ship that can also launch an unexpected and deadly initial assault based on what it finds. These are the designs that, I feel, will be stripped from me with this.

And for what? Because a couple players have taken it upon themselves to outdo one another? I will not mention names, but I have assisted multiple parties in rounding out ships that they've asked my help with, all because of a ship someone else designed. The Akula and Chancellor classes I learned to deal with, though more because it was made clear to me that my lone ranting wouldn't get them removed. But as more people decided that it would be better to complain about the so-called 'superships' than actually try to acquire one of the many planets still free on the board and work for resources to build them on their own, it feels like the ones that actually worked for them are being punished.

Will I lose the ships I had to fight for? The Catalyst, a dedicated research ship of the Victory-III design, or perhaps the Arc Hammer II, a construction ship with no weapons, but a bigger hyperdrive to enable its facilities and strategic planning databanks. More efficient carriers than the Venator, with its one squadron per round launch capability? And why? Because of superships.

I suppose my main issue is wondering whether or not my work is going to be reset again in the future, because someone else has complaints about the Empire having the biggest toys. I've offered several storylines to the so-called 'minor factions,' that include scrapped Imperial ships, ways of getting money from the Empire for their own uses, and the like... and what it boils down to is that people don't seem to be willing to work for it. They feel it should be handed to them because they have the decency to show their faces for the game.

What happens to the people that honestly love this game, and have worked to make it great, when their work ends up being for naught?
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"Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 11:38pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Designs I've handed in personally have not breached the 'supership' classification, yet they are improvements over previous models. An Interceptor based off the best assets of the TIE Defender, but with drawbacks as well. A bomber with increased capacity and targeting because of newer, more efficient power cores. A reconnaissance ship that can also launch an unexpected and deadly initial assault based on what it finds. These are the designs that, I feel, will be stripped from me with this.

That's true, you've always been very diligent about how you design your craft and making sure no one vehicle is supremely effective in all areas. I must say even my own efforts falter in that area. However, no designs are actually being forced out. None. It's all voluntary, and while yes, as faction leader, I could certainly apply pressure to pull such things, I won't. On my own designs, I'll keep my own council, however.

As for the Bomber, that craft is canon. It's not going anywhere except for somewhat less frequent duty than originally planned if all goes well. Honestly, I hope all does. Without going into details, when war broke out with the Rebellion, I planned on unleashing an entirely new Imperial war machine. The stuff's been in the works over the past eighteen months and frankly, is a response to the rash of ISD, Venator, VSD, Dreadnaught, and whatever else people felt they absolute had to copy to save the Universe. If I never have to deploy those designs as a result of this reset... I will be glad for it. And if that means we use Interceptors and Bombers instead of Defender fleets... I will be ecstatic.

But no, you will not lose any design that you do not willingly forfeit before CMAC.

Quote:
Will I lose the ships I had to fight for? The Catalyst, a dedicated research ship of the Victory-III design, or perhaps the Arc Hammer II, a construction ship with no weapons, but a bigger hyperdrive to enable its facilities and strategic planning databanks. More efficient carriers than the Venator, with its one squadron per round launch capability? And why? Because of superships.

No, no, and I've yet to decide about the carrier I designed. The armament is now totally inappropriate (A word to the wise, should you all approve this, I am redesigning the armament aboard ISDs to fit closer to canon, models, and NOT WEG) but aside from tweaking the guns, I could potentially release them again.

Quote:
I suppose my main issue is wondering whether or not my work is going to be reset again in the future, because someone else has complaints about the Empire having the biggest toys. I've offered several storylines to the so-called 'minor factions,' that include scrapped Imperial ships, ways of getting money from the Empire for their own uses, and the like... and what it boils down to is that people don't seem to be willing to work for it. They feel it should be handed to them because they have the decency to show their faces for the game.

I've raised concerns in this area as well. We'll figure it out, though I can't say I have a definite answer yet.

Quote:
What happens to the people that honestly love this game, and have worked to make it great, when their work ends up being for naught?

The beauty of it is that the only work to be nullified is that which the players themselves wish nullified. God knows, I'd gladly undo the Akulas given the chance. Here it is. I have... other designs that I know give you pause, at least. In all likelyhood, most of them are going. You only lose which you wish to... we're not forcing anything.
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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 11:43pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
I suppose my main issue is wondering whether or not my work is going to be reset again in the future, because someone else has complaints about the Empire having the biggest toys. I've offered several storylines to the so-called 'minor factions,' that include scrapped Imperial ships, ways of getting money from the Empire for their own uses, and the like... and what it boils down to is that people don't seem to be willing to work for it. They feel it should be handed to them because they have the decency to show their faces for the game.


Make no mistake: the principle of these changes has nothing to do with the Empire being more powerful than everyone else. Ams retracting some designs is an entirely separate, specific matter, and any reduction of designs is because he is willing to do it. This is a rebalance of value, not a rebalance of power. Yes, some of the causes that prompt these changes have to do with the ludicrous amount of ships out there, but that applies to all factions.

Let me put it this way: we're making sure the building blocks are valued correctly and fairly (which, right now, they are not). It has nothing to do with how big you can make your building.
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Carnor Jax
ECP Member/Faction Lieutenant


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Just follow the trail of blood...

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 11:44pm    Post subject:
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Ams Jendob wrote:
Quote:
What happens to the people that honestly love this game, and have worked to make it great, when their work ends up being for naught?

The beauty of it is that the only work to be nullified is that which the players themselves wish nullified. God knows, I'd gladly undo the Akulas given the chance. Here it is. I have... other designs that I know give you pause, at least. In all likelyhood, most of them are going. You only lose which you wish to... we're not forcing anything.


And if someone DOESN'T want to get rid of one of their designs? What then? Do they get to run the board because people willingly gave up their designs, or do we reach right back to this situation because it becomes a Mexican Standoff, with each side unwilling to give up what gives them their balance against the others?

To be fair, I'm not giving you guys a chance here. I feel that the decisions that were made, for good or for ill, have been made, and it is up to us to move forward. I'm all for forcibly obliterating designs and forcing upgrades to start from scratch under a more strict filter, but this whole 'voluntary downgrade' and 'assets reset' feels to me like half-patched idea. Either say you were wrong and remove the issues that are at the core of the problem, or let nature run its course.

Just don't let the squeaky wheels get all the grease.
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Protector of the Empire, "The Barry White of Buchery"

"Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 11:53pm    Post subject:
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I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. We are admitting that we were wrong, which is sort of why we're starting the economy from the ground up. We approved some designs that turned out to be not at all good, but we're trying to foster activity, not come up with draconian measures to drive everyone away. That's why we're hoping people will be able to put aside ego, say "hm, you know what, I guess this design really is kind of nuts", and voluntarily consent to getting rid of it.

This has nothing to do with rebalancing the Empire and the Alliance so that other factions have a chance to take them down. However, both factions have gotten things that are vastly devalued in the current circumstances. As I said before, ISD IIs, in the GCW which was not at all long ago, were fearsome ships. Now they're filler. The Executor was the best ship out there, now a ridiculous amount of them. We're at the level where you have to use ships that are at those levels of power. I have 5 Chancellors in every flag fleet in the Alliance, and the rest of the ships there are pretty much just to make the topic look bigger. That's not how it should be. It's led to a series of 1-upsmanship that has corroded this aspect of the game.

CMAC has no problem with admitting that some of this got by us, either due to innocent misjudgment or complacency. We're trying to solve that now, and there's no way to take a system that has no static benchmarks and turn it into one that is consistent without building from the ground up. So many inconsistencies have been introduced into the system that it's impossible to resolve the problem without re-purchasing assets. To do anything else would be proposing like re-assembling a jigsaw puzzle that is a composite of 5 other puzzles.

Designs that are not retracted will have cost (and specifications, possibly) re-evaluated so that they reflect the actual worth in the new system. If you want to keep all of your current designs, fine, but the new cost is going to reflect how powerful they are. You may still have the ability to purchase that Planet-Eating Polar Bear, but you may not be able to afford it. In fact, this makes ships like Executors and Chancellors relatively more powerful, just far fewer in number, since, for the first time in a long while, the Empire and the Alliance will need to look at their checkbooks.
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Tue, December 30th 2009 11:55pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
And if someone DOESN'T want to get rid of one of their designs?

Then they can have it. But if CMAC feels it's utterly insane (such as a fighter ten times as powerful as a TIE Defender), it will be very expensive. Cray said it best: we're rebalancing value, not assets. Basically, better doohickey costs more. How much better decides how much more.

Quote:
To be fair, I'm not giving you guys a chance here. I feel that the decisions that were made, for good or for ill, have been made, and it is up to us to move forward.

Actually, as I understand it, we're putting it before all of you to see how you react. And some concern is good: it lets us answer questions and clear up misunderstandings.

Quote:
I'm all for forcibly obliterating designs and forcing upgrades to start from scratch under a more strict filter, but this whole 'voluntary downgrade' and 'assets reset' feels to me like half-patched idea. Either say you were wrong and remove the issues that are at the core of the problem, or let nature run its course.

But we're not saying any kind of force is being applied. THAT would be improper. Instead, you can have whatever you like... but you have to pay for it. A TIE Defender will cost more than a TIE Fighter. A Defender knockoff--depending on the severity and how much it pushes the envelope relative to the Defender--will cost similarly barring some insane circumstance.

Quote:
Just don't let the squeaky wheels get all the grease.

They are, because let's face it, we're all squeaky wheels. And one of the biggest gripes is assets. When CMAC is considering imposing heavy restrictions on battles so they don't devolve into five million ship jack-fests... we all have issues with one aspect of the game or another. We're all squeaking about this or that... and we're going to our best to grease you where you need it.

...Hmm. Could've worded that better. :p
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Carnor Jax
ECP Member/Faction Lieutenant


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Just follow the trail of blood...

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 12:06am    Post subject:
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I thank you for your time and your effort in answering my questions, both of you. I understand that I can, at times, be obstinate and relatively unwilling to reason, and I applaud your patience.

Now that I've had time to settle down, and speak to others about their own perspectives, I believe I have reached a happy medium in this.

With the assets I have available to me currently, as the commander of Imperial Stormtrooper and Starfighter assets, I could easily quadruple my numbers without flinching. It has been my effort to provide balance in this game in my own way, and perhaps it has just needed to be applied in a wider set than just two arms of the military of one faction.

I still feel that more attention is being paid to those that complain than those that have voluntarily kept their own abilities (perceived or actual) at bay, but that does not come without the understanding of the nature of politics. All I wanted to do in this game was to have fun, and I didn't want to be sucked into the one-upmanship that has since plagued it. My roll of maximum Force level for Jax was not requested, it was a consequence of the Random Number Generator, and I've used that to my advantage on a couple occasions.

However, I believe that I got lost with certain elements of the overall plan, and that was what caught me... I've had time to re-look at things and to draw different conclusions based on my personal analysis and perspective, and while I still disagree with some of it, I understand what is necessary.

This will nullify what I feel to be some of my better posts - parade grounds, flybys, mass transports and research threads. But, as the illustrious Jendob has pointed out, the design concession is strictly voluntary. I've offered a list of things I'm willing to give up on my end, as far as certain abnormalities in my own branches, but it remains my fear that there are those that will somehow find a way to squeak by with ultra-designs and make others that were willing to sacrifice, pay the price for their willingness to cooperate.

Time will tell, though, and for now my stance changes to a cautious support of the proposal in many of its elements, and grudging acceptance of most of the rest.
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 12:09am    Post subject:
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Forgive me, but this will hardly nullify any of your posts. Really, it's the lighter starships like transports and carriers that suffer from overpricing rather than under. If anything, most factions stand to gain in the light starship and army departments... it's just fleets of 100 Star Destroyers that should fade away.
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Zero
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 572

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 04:56am    Post subject:
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Talking about assets and designs and such is great; and I'm all for anything that helps the factions get into order.

However, i am more concerned with what we're doing with our characters. Here I am, playing a field marshal for the Empire; and the only military objectives Zero has acted upon are things Rory has come up with. It would be nice, at least for military personnel, to actually receive some orders from the hierarchy. I'm not saying it all has to be full out war and whatnot. Even the order to some small planet to quell an uprising or advise the local government in tactics and training would be nice.

I guess I'd just like the leaders of the factions, particularly the Empire, to be more active in using PCs more often.

NOTE: And can I get the link to the Wiki?
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Alatáriël Pallanén
ECP Member


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 2465

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 06:16am    Post subject:
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I haven't posted in an OOC forum in several months, keeping everything I do, In Character, but I will finally break that streak. :P

Tiara, thank you for your commentary and I did not take it in a negative way, but I do wish to provide some insight to the way I managed Alliance Security.

Going from the DRWP / LAMBDA (which WAS affliated to the Galactic Empire, before becoming it's own 'Empire'...) I'm not surprised that Arlyn, and I, acted in similar way. The character I portrayed was somewhat the darker light of the people within the Rebellion. She wasn't born and raised under the Rebel's principles, mind you. And given the history of Thanagar, I don't really blame her. (nor my actions) Not every leader of the Rebellion will be pure, but I do agree that it was becoming a crazy-paranoid-military police style. :P

Most of those instances have been resolved, and if you haven't noticed, I am no longer with the Rebellion. I haven't served as Security Chief for quite some time.

As for Cray's initial post, I am willing to do whatever needs to be done to restore activity. To be honest, I was getting really bored, and thought of Freyja's attack at my last effort to stir the forums (as I so like to do. :P) And after that, I probably wouldn't have checked in for quite some time. Maybe reading up to see what happens to Velora and Jahan, Skirata and Ryoko, Shayera and Ams, Carnor Jax / Avaritus to Palpatine's Rule, the Solos, Zero (and maybe Denora), what becomes of Adria... The Master... Nevin and Salla... and all the other stories that have been started. (And to those who have ended, it was a fun journey... I like reading anything posted on the forums, as your story, becomes mine...)

Our characters should be remembered, and enhanced into the 'epicness' they all deserve. Not everything is black and white, and though the assets are reseting, I think the relationships and the plots we have *endured* and *played*, is well worth the consideration and regeneration.

If anything, it's been an awesome ride.

Through the good, and the bad, it was nice knowing all of you. (Happy New Year!)
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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 12:10pm    Post subject:
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Thanks for posting, guys. :D Alex and Jase are totally right; the character plots are still the most important thing, and we want to keep evolving towards the character-driven RPG that most of us want. Revamping the economic system is something that, I think, will give us all more time for the plots. I don't know about you, but I haven't posted as my characters consistently for over a year. I'm not complaining about the workload as an admin, but a lot of the headaches we have - in fact, most of them - comes from this problem.

VII and VIII have always had great, imaginative players, and I'm sure if we rally the base (like it seems is happening now! :D) we'll have no problem at all getting our characters active again. When the economic headache is gone, hopefully we'll be able to get back to how things should be.

ECP will still be working on doing smaller, multi-player plots, but maybe Zara could help some people come up with individual plots for themselves if they'd like it?

Aside from that, if any of you want to help but don't know how, I'll reiterate that we're asking people to retire some designs, and we'll offer new-credit incentives for doing so. If that's something you don't want to do, that's fine. We're still looking for ideas about how to make things better in general.


EDIT: Also, Jase, the Wiki is on our development subdomain right now; we're still working on ironing things out, but don't worry, the new site is literally days from completion. And I mean that literally, not in the "done in 11 months" way. :p
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Alatáriël Pallanén
ECP Member


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 2465

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 09:07pm    Post subject:
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I think you seem to have a hand on the financial recreation, but if do need help, feel free to send some tasks my way.

With things moving in the right direction, the RPG should find renewed vitality in no time.

I am also very excited to see the new sites, and all the bells and whistles you've been braggin' about. :P

EDIT: I thought I'd add, that I'm willing to get rid of my naval forces (with the exception of a small defense fleet, and the shipping fleet I use for my company), and even most of my military. I've thought it would be interesting to go into a different direction, and focus on the intelligence aspect. I enjoyed that of Alexus RPG, and maybe something similar could be applied.

Also, will the posts move over to the next site, or will we start fresh there too? I like the idea of a VIII.5, with minimal to no IC posts moving over.

I think the Galaxy Ball was a defining moment to this site....and should end accordingly.


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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 11:12pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Going from the DRWP / LAMBDA (which WAS affliated to the Galactic Empire, before becoming it's own 'Empire'...)

Yes, Lambda had some deals with the Empire originally. But the DRWP was never a friend of the Empire. :p

Quote:
Nevin and Salla

You'd be waiting a while. :p

Quote:

Also, will the posts move over to the next site, or will we start fresh there too? I like the idea of a VIII.5, with minimal to no IC posts moving over.

The URL isn't changing, nor is the past history of the game. We're just tweaking my horribly, horribly botched economy system. :p

Quote:
I think the Galaxy Ball was a defining moment to this site....and should end accordingly.

It's been over a while. Even the war has begun (with Nespis, not the really big one you're all waiting for). >_>
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Kalydon Skirata
Aedile


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1091
Location: In the shadows...

 Post Posted: Wed, December 31st 2009 11:48pm    Post subject:
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I like the idea of losing everything I've worked to attain about as much as playing a Rebel. :?

But I do like the idea of smaller scale battles where the big ships like the Executor aren't just filler ships. And I love the idea that fighters will have value.

So how would it work for me? Do I lose all the weapons I've purchased over the course of the game, the troops I've commanded, etc etc.?
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Alatáriël Pallanén
ECP Member


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 2465

 Post Posted: Thu, January 01st 2009 12:57am    Post subject:
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Kalydon Skirata wrote:
I like the idea of losing everything I've worked to attain about as much as playing a Rebel. :?


Rebelpun aside, I agree. I never implied we'd be losing the RPG's story, I thought a similar transfer of VII to VIII was taking place. When that happened, we lost a lot of thread clutter and were able to completely start fresh. (Not NEW, but fresh. Let's not catch me on vocab confusion. :P)

All in all, I'm just waiting to see "the new site".

I don't really care about the war any more, or the gains and losses thereof. Which I assume most of us can agree on, because otherwise, we would've posted battle engagements and the such. :P
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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Thu, January 01st 2009 03:19am    Post subject:
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As Moff said, this isn't a new RPG being created; no VIII.V :p It's more like a symbolic relaunch.

Anyway, in the strict sense, yes, all of these assets are going to be cleared. You're still going to get a proper credit amount to buy a close equivalent (but probably drastically reduced in number) back, but that's after everything's been cleared.

For purposes of plot, I'm sure you'll have no problem maintaining story elements. For example, the Tantive VII or VIII or whatever it is now has always been Leia's personal transport ship. So, I'll obviously buy it back in the new assets; I don't see an instance in which abstracting this process (meaning, for the purposes of the IC world, the old ship and the new ship are the same one Leia's always been riding around in) won't be possible, unless you're worried about plot devices involving 30 Executors. :p
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Alatáriël Pallanén
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 Post Posted: Thu, January 01st 2009 03:55am    Post subject:
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Ok cool. That's the only confusion I had.

Woot woot to new features though. :D
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Luke Skywalker
CMAC Associate


Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 405

 Post Posted: Thu, January 01st 2009 04:15am    Post subject:
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Nevin Antilles wrote:
ECP will still be working on doing smaller, multi-player plots, but maybe Zara could help some people come up with individual plots for themselves if they'd like it?

Allow me to expand. *Unbuckles belt*

Alright, with that out of the way, I'll get to the point. In my own opinion, I think the game's life had been snuffed out in no small part to the seeming lack of character-driven activity. Sure, everyone may be moving fleets around and waging wars on planets far and wide, but there's a lot of other people (like me) who have no involvement in it, nor do they really want any. I have a few ideas that may hopefully allow people to get back in touch with the characters they may have lost, and potentially let new players break into the RPG a lot more easily.

One of the things I want to do is... something with the Assessment Room. From the beginning of the RPG, I've noticed that the entire forum doesn't really serve much of a purpose, when really, it could be doing a lot more. Maybe we should hold some more collaborative events in there. It's been shown how hard it is to successfully launch a large plotline in this RPG, but say if we remove a lot of the tension we would normally have from worrying about war, or character deaths, or this, or that, then I'm sure we could all have a lot more fun simply role-playing our characters. Although none of it would have an impact on the game's ongoing story, I'm sure it would really help us out in the fact that we'd be getting back to having plain, old fun. :P

Another thought I had just a moment ago was a sort of character plot compendium. Basically, it would be a list of all the current plots in the game, with a short description of what's going on and a list of the player characters involved. That way, people looking for things to do can consult the compendium, see who's doing what, and inquire. I think this could really help out new players as well. Which leads me nicely into my next paragraph...

Being a new player in this place is a harsh experience. I wouldn't really know, since I've had Crazed holding my hand and giving me something to do the entire time. :P But for someone who doesn't know anyone on the forum, there's really just... nothing for them to do. I think this was CMAC's idea originally, which they pitched to me some time ago, but never really took off, but I still want to try and bring it back. It would be nice to start some kind of newbie training arena. A place for brand new players to post without worrying about disrupting anyone else's plots, while still having the guidance of other players and moderators to help them learn. It would basically be the same as the Assessment Room, in which nothing in the forum would be taken for canon, but it would be a great place for new players to get a foot in the door.

Well, this turned out to be a much, much longer post than I wanted, but there is my platform for being CMACed recently. Maybe not directly giving players stuff to do, but certainly lending a hand with some inspiration. Anyway, let me know what you think, and we'll see where we can go in 2009.
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Kol Starskimmer
Private First Class


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 94

 Post Posted: Fri, January 02nd 2009 12:20am    Post subject:
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*clutches heart and collapses*

Will each faction keep the designs that it already has?
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