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Domestic Policies/Colonization/Internal Expansion
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Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Questions and Suggestions » Domestic Policies/Colonization/Internal Expansion
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Wed, October 08th 2008 09:13am    Post subject: Domestic Policies/Colonization/Internal Expansion
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Is there any system in place for spending money to make money? That is, if a good roleplay is done in which a Domestic policy is outlined, or a colonization plan explained, or an internal expansion (that is, building industry, etc), is it possible to spend money to increase the income from a certain planet for the long term?
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The Master
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 Post Posted: Wed, October 08th 2008 11:53am    Post subject:
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I would desire this.
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dudop
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 Post Posted: Wed, October 08th 2008 03:18pm    Post subject:
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I know exactly what you mean. In EaW they call it a "mining facility." Speaking of...
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 19th 2009 07:43pm    Post subject:
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Hai. I bump.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 19th 2009 09:42pm    Post subject:
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Y halo thar.
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Tiara Tranada
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 Post Posted: Tue, January 20th 2009 06:27am    Post subject:
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I believe a similar question has been asked before and if memory serves, the answer is no. The reason is that SWVII and SWVIII are character-oriented RPGs, with planetary and factional leadership designed to support and enrich the character development rather than be the central focus.

Allowing factions and governments to manage their affairs to generate more money than the simple income formula does would result in even more of the one-upmanship that CMAC is trying to eliminate and would turn the dynamic into a NationSim with character development whenever stuff gets boring instead of what the RPG was created to be.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Tue, January 20th 2009 04:31pm    Post subject:
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The idea is, I believe I have stated (and Ams has avoided :p) that the amount of gain from the action would be relative to the amount of work RP'ed into it. That's what I've suggested several times. This would encourage more roleplaying.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Tue, January 20th 2009 05:37pm    Post subject:
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I think the answer has actually been that we'll evaluate on a case-by-case basis. But, it's kind of hard to assign hard values to subjective criteria.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Tue, January 20th 2009 07:50pm    Post subject:
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So what, can I try it out, and see what you guys say, or what?
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Kilvec Ordo
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 Post Posted: Tue, January 20th 2009 07:54pm    Post subject:
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I've always wondered if business and non-military corporations could be part of this RPG. While I'm more into action oriented characters, I know that a lot of other folks would like to be a badass CEO or something, and it would add something to the game.

Oh, and I agree with the internet-winner.
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Adria Reyna
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 25th 2009 02:02pm    Post subject:
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I believe that applying such a thing as internal economic structures is just going to get vastly too complicated, of course, one could go for some simplistic system of upgrading a worlds resource production via personal expense, but that could be manipulated by factions such as the Empire to provide us with more gigantically rediculous funds then we allready have.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 25th 2009 02:17pm    Post subject:
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But that would be if you pushed your members to do it. I'm not talking about any sort of change to the game mechanics, just something like this for CMAC to consider:

A role play happens, and depending on the work that was put into the roleplay (meaning no spamming), it meets a level of success. So, if it's a really crappy roleplay, it can have an entirely negative effect (diplomatic insults that cause terrible reprecussions, giving minus trade and therefore minus planetary income). Once the roleplaying is over, the player can submit it as an issue (providing a link, suggested results, and any other comments that might apply) and CMAC can judge on it (I would suggest in a forum where each issue had it's own topic, but I don't think CMAC like that setup) or even by players (that whole ECP or EPC or whatever it was could do this).

One example would be like this:

A PC faction contacts an NPC planet, requesting a diplomatic meeting (I assume CMAC doesn't need to okay that)

During this meeting, the PC faction suggests a trade agreement, at which point, they submit it as an issue to CMAC. Once they have made a ruling, they post in the thread (cyan, I would imagine) saying the NPC decision and effects of it (Planets X Y and Z's monthly income increase by whatever amounts). Later on, if the player made another trade agreement, they could mention this one if it has any effects (for instance, trading one commodity for another).

This would then generalise to other things. For instance, building a new city, colony, or such. For the Empire, this wouldn't mean too much: they already have tons of planets, and high income planets in which a colony is settled would likely only cost more money than would be made. However, for small factions, who have low-income planets, then a colony could make a huge boost to their income.

The key is making the player work, not CMAC. Any sort of NPC reaction could be made very easy to approve, but not if you turn it into a huge beauraucratic process. That's what's bogging the game down and reducing activity, so doing this will improve activity but if done improperly, will make CMAC have to do lots of unnessecary work, which will only mean the opposite effect.

EDIT:
I digressed. Essentially, the system should rely on the quality of roleplaying and work that goes into it, NOT a simple transfer of credits-for-income.
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Last edited by Xaph on Sun, January 25th 2009 02:18pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kilvec Ordo
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 25th 2009 02:22pm    Post subject:
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I like this idea. Makes sense.
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Kilvec Ordo

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Alatáriël Pallanén
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 25th 2009 06:55pm    Post subject:
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I don't know, whats the point to that? How much more could you actually make, without it becoming unfair. I've put almost eight months into Coronus, with working IC on trades/transit/infrastructure, and OOC with CMAC.... but that doesn't mean I generate any more credit flow.

It would be better if your task was to reduce maintenance, versus generating more income. I think it's difficult to put your (not to be rude) little worlds into anything bigger than what they are. They can only build, and produce so much. Expansion, and contracts. You have a trillion different ways government actually spends their tax money on... like citizen health welfare, unemployment, wars in iraq, or NASA... the system we had squares all that away, giving you about 1cr per citizen, while only charging you a small maintaining fee for each military/"large" item you purchase.

It's a pain in the ass, but made sense at the time. Now the whole system is changing, that would have to change alongside with it...

But the point is, you can't go from Madagascar's production level, to China or the US.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 09:24am    Post subject:
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I point you towards Russia's interbellum development under Soviet administration.

At the moment, my worlds are underpopulated. Expansion would only hit a certain maximum limit (That is, I'm not going to be able to build a planetary-scale ecumenopolis) but there is plenty I could be doing to expand.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 02:42pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
I've always wondered if business and non-military corporations could be part of this RPG. While I'm more into action oriented characters, I know that a lot of other folks would like to be a badass CEO or something, and it would add something to the game.

Yeah, it would be good to have people besides admirals, corporate directors, and faction leaders as characters. As for a... "badass" CEO, though... :p

Quote:
I believe that applying such a thing as internal economic structures is just going to get vastly too complicated, of course, one could go for some simplistic system of upgrading a worlds resource production via personal expense, but that could be manipulated by factions such as the Empire to provide us with more gigantically rediculous funds then we allready have.

Well, that's a good point. We can't exactly say "you cleaned up this bad neighborhood, +500 credits a week income." Nor can we say "You did improvement package 1138. +500 credits" without it being open to wild abuse.

Not to mention, some worlds just don't have room for improvement or the capacity. Tatooine, for example, has been a bad vacation spot for four thousand years and will likely continue to be so for another four millennia.

Quote:
I digressed. Essentially, the system should rely on the quality of roleplaying and work that goes into it, NOT a simple transfer of credits-for-income.

The main flaw here is that it's extremely subjective to say "Player X RPed ten times better than Player Y." As for effort, does a fourteen-page ego-inflating post count more than seven pages of realistic assessment and approaches?

Quote:
At the moment, my worlds are underpopulated. Expansion would only hit a certain maximum limit (That is, I'm not going to be able to build a planetary-scale ecumenopolis) but there is plenty I could be doing to expand.

Well, raw population is no longer going to be the sole factor deciding income. And there just are some planets that have small populations. Fresia, the homeworld of the Incom Corporation, has just a couple million people despite being in the Core near Coruscant and all of those other planets with extremely high populations.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 02:52pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
The main flaw here is that it's extremely subjective to say "Player X RPed ten times better than Player Y." As for effort, does a fourteen-page ego-inflating post count more than seven pages of realistic assessment and approaches?


That's up to CMAC. My idea involves quite a bit of common sense being applied at your level (that is, the level at which you judge the RP to be successful or not) which seems to be a factor everyone is ignoring and instead dragging out wild examples where the idea may or may not work. I mean, if the RA tried to clean Tatooine up, they would get stopped by the Hutts. That's the decision that would have to be made at CMAC's level. And it could be done quite easily, but everyone seems to be turning it into a 'why, goodness, if example 'x' doesn't fit into a strict formula developed, then the idea is a failure' mentality.
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 02:57pm    Post subject:
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Eh. Science majors tend to think in terms of formulas. :p

I personally have an aversion to a subjective measure, but I'm confident in CMAC--as a group--being able to judge such a system fairly. So yes, it could work.
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Nevin Antilles
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 02:59pm    Post subject:
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This isn't a nation sim, so we're not going to waste time by developing worthless formulas that will probably do nothing else but introduce more inaccuracy into the system. Things are going to be priced by what they can *do*, not because they contain a million moles of X substance.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 03:00pm    Post subject:
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But not if you're going to make it into a huge beauraucratic process which is the REAL problem in the game.
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 03:03pm    Post subject:
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Nevin Antilles wrote:
This isn't a nation sim, so we're not going to waste time by developing worthless formulas that will probably do nothing else but introduce more inaccuracy into the system. Things are going to be priced by what they can *do*, not because they contain a million moles of X substance.


I'm sorry, but isn't that exactly what I'm trying to say?
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Ams Jendob
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 03:06pm    Post subject:
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Yes. Use the edit button next time, though. :p
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 03:08pm    Post subject:
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Edit Buttons are so 2008.

But yeah, comments on my post before that, Moff?
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Kilvec Ordo
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 26th 2009 06:37pm    Post subject:
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Double posting FTW.
Any who, I think that some sort of submission for planet 'enhancement' would be nice. You could submit an idea like you do a design, the CMAC would evaluate it, fail it and make you pay, say 'nah,' or thumbs up it and you get a boost in profit. You could only do, say, 1 to 3 of these per planet, to keep it simple. Small factions could get more. This also makes a faction having a good diplomat as important as a good tactician. Another feature could be finding resources. You could do this like we currently do FS rolls. You say 'I wanna roll' and CMAC does two; first roll says what resource, second roll says how much. Simple, and pretty much how we run things now. It's not 'dead accurate' but people can't argue with random fate.
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Kilvec Ordo

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"You just broke physics."-Peyr Baelish

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