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A Beaten Horse
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Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Announcements » A Beaten Horse
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Han Solo
CMAC Artist


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Wherever I end up...

 Post Posted: Sat, January 20th 2007 11:35pm    Post subject:
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Alright, let me say that I'm EXTERMELY upset to have to come home from work and see this mess. I just spent the past 20 minutes cleaning up all the derogative comments and flames in this thread alone. Unacceptable, people. Seriously, grow up.

As for this issue, Onasi, I told you to drop this last night. I will tell you one more time - enough is enough. You made a poor decision and blaming it on the admins isn't helping your position. I'll gladly post the MSN conversation where we discussed this and you'll see that you were not forced. Although, we're all mature here and I shouldn't have to do that. But I'll do what I must to settle this issue.

So, let me just say this - no one singled you out when that rule was created. It was inevitable with all the new factions popping up almost every week and you just so happened to get the brunt of it. However, no one forced you to give up or even join the Alliance. That was your decision and that's what you need to accept.

To put a closure to this issue - Onasi, I'm afraid you've earned yourself a warning. We all know better than to stoop to name calling and immature hissy fits when something doesn't go our way. Please watch your language and attitude toward other players in the future.
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Sat, January 20th 2007 11:53pm    Post subject:
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Also, it was enforced on other factions in VII, as well as in this game. No offense Gavin, but you don't know how many factions have been deleted over the past couple years for having one person. Unfortunately, yours was the only one of any real consequence. And for that, I apologize your faction was lost to the rule, but nonetheless, the rules are the rules, and everyone must abide by them.

However, the issue has been dealt with, so let's not let this spark another fight. Everyone calm down.
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Gavin Onasi
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 590

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 01:50am    Post subject:
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Quote:
I'll gladly post the MSN conversation where we discussed this and you'll see that you were not forced. Although, we're all mature here and I shouldn't have to do that. But I'll do what I must to settle this issue.


Im sorry but I have to comment.... yeah, I started talking about joining the alliance with 2 days left in my 3 week term of finding another member. I did this thing called bullshitting (cant find a better word, sorry). I tried bullshitting the fact I wanted to join the alliance so you wouldn't think I was just some kid who had to join. I wanted to try to become trusted (which never happened mind you) and become part of the "inner circle" or those who make decisions plan out defenses.

And Im sorry for going on about my commonwealth but, that was the most fun I had during my tenure as a VII and VIII member. The time leading up to and the time playing as the leader was awsome, Ic ouldn't wait to hop on and play. After that it became a steady decline until it hit rock bottom the last four months (Ive been played close to 14 ot 15 months now). I am not an RPer, I am more into the statistical side of the RPG, setting up defenses, preparing finances (Im becoming an accountant FFS lol) getting ready for wars, defending my faction. I am not a writer, I have never been a writer and I never will be a writer, so RPing is actually painful for me and the smallest of posts takes a long time for me to do. I can not get what I want across due to my writing skills. But when I had the commonwealth, I felt like i was finnaly getting things together. I could develop slowly as an RPer but I could still be a large part of the RPG with my minor, yet still powerful, faction. So in conclusiong of this rant, when I had the commonwealth, it was the best experiacne I could have had on VII and I developed more as an RPer and RPG player in those four or six weeks then in the past year.
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Cyrus Bounto
Lance Corporal


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 120

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 11:02am    Post subject:
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Strike two, VIII.

I have lost completely faith in VIII. There's just no hope for things changing among the player base. To be honest, people are getting away with things they shouldn't. I'm not the only one who sees it.

Certainly a blurb here and there isn't enough to complain about, but with the events which have happened lately, I'm surprised that some people haven't found themselves locked out on the stoop.

And why is it that people are getting away with things they shouldn't? I don't know for sure. Nor am I going to propose a theory.

VIII is teetering on strike three for me. The fun, my enjoyment, is being leeched out by people who honestly don't want to be here for any other reason than to build up their pathetic egos. I'm tired of it.

None of us should be here to babysit.
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 12:44pm    Post subject:
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...Excuse me? Then perhaps you should depart if you feel it's not worth your time. As for "locking people out on the stoop", quite a few people are looking at it next time they decide to violate our CoC.

However, I have no need to justify myself to you, or anyone technically. This isn't a customer support line (we all speak English, for one), or a democracy. We all have to work together, though... and melancholy just doesn't help.

So, if you want to keep playing umpire...
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"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p


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Velora Antana
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 12:46pm    Post subject:
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Yeah. Nubis, no offense meant, but you are acting a bit self-righteous. It's only a game.
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Kalydon Skirata
Aedile


Joined: 29 May 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 12:59pm    Post subject:
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Okay people, settle down there. It is only a game as stated above, remember that.
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Cyrus Bounto
Lance Corporal


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 120

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 01:14pm    Post subject:
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Right. You're all right. It's a game. Or it's intended to be a game. I have no more patience left for how things continue to be carried on. The babies are continued to be spoon-fed while the rest of us get the names thrown at us.

You're right, Ams. It isn't a support line and no one is asking you to justify yourself. But you fail to see anything you don't want to see. Your game, believe it or not, is slipping away from you much like TSRPG did from me. And it's no threat.

I have no personal qualms with anyone here. My problem lies in that no one seems to be willing to budge for the sake of the community. Meaning, no one is willing to step past their egos and work to make the place more fun. Just look at how almost every thread on this forum becomes a debate about something or other.

Working together? Hardly.

I'll play umpire all I want. If you don't feel I'm wanted in the community enough to seek me out and inquire as to my complaints, then I guess I really don't have a reason to stick around. Hence the three strikes. When I feel my time is up, it will be up. And that is the warning issued in my last post.

Take it or leave it, Ams. But don't think for a minute that this is personal in nature. You're too quick to assume that intent.
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 01:32pm    Post subject:
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Contact me over PM, and tell me your complaints. I am actually interested. And I don't want you to leave, either. However, we can all use a break now and then.
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Last edited by Ams Jendob on Sun, January 21st 2007 01:36pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alatáriël Pallanén
ECP Member


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 2465

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 02:30pm    Post subject:
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I personally believe things tend to slip out of control a lot because everyone has put a lot of time and effort into this game. We all have plans, plots, and relationships [some stronger than others]. We've made mistakes, admittedly or not, and we carry on, however, we get so jammed on our ideas and plotlines we refuse to budge or make some adjustments.

Cyrus brought up some REALLY good points and I meant to comment afterwards, but I was distracted at the time. Instead of people saying, "You know that's a really good idea and I try...." or even politely saying that he may have been wrong in an error and then nicely describe what you have noticed and what could be changed... but that didn't happen. I read people yelling and getting defensive of their personality on the forums.

If the RPG fails, we cannot blame it entirely on CMAC, but players hold a major responsibility. We know the rules, we know that our actions could cause serious problems, etc. I think its becoming more of a "Damn, they denied this one, lets see if I can slip this one by"

With that in mind, I believe that many try to take advantage of certain situations. CMAC does work, they really do, but sometimes we fail to notice it. We have no idea on how hard they work for the forums and I don't want to find out by a sudden breakdown and a depressed/angry notice in the announcement forums. I would prefer some kind of weekly memo, lol, of sorts that is posted and it can say, "Hey guys, I was busy this week but we made some major progress on the new battlesystem" I also believe players are putting way too much into the admins. They are here to moderate our playing experience, not dictate it. You are allowed to create and play your character how YOU want, not by their needs. Coming to them for plotlines is silly, unless you wanct them to read over it and ensure its playable.

And I believe we are also a community of joking. We all joke around with each other over msn and the various chatting programs, however, its beginning to dip into sarcasms. And snide remarks are replacing the once soft jokes and its getting old. I see people calling each other names over the forums and its just... unneeded hostility. [Trust me, I went crazy over Volytar and Carnor Jax's remarks, but I realized today, that: why was I so angry? Why did I resort to name-calling and snide remarks? It's sorta sad...]

Just my observations, and I believe that Cyrus posted this to encourage a change in all of us. We can bicker, or we can actually talk about what we can try to do to make this a more enjoyable role-playing-gaming-environment. So, let's talk. :)


Last edited by Alatáriël Pallanén on Sun, January 21st 2007 02:31pm; edited 1 time in total
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Carlist Rieekan
Master Sergeant


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 728

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 02:34pm    Post subject:
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Enough of your "holier than thou" attitude Nubis, I agree but god damnit dont be so Vulcan about it.

Personally, I think the problem is lack of moderation and administration. CMAC has three members, that's clearly not enough to deal with the battlesytem, money issues, design issues etc. etc. More CMAC members are clearly required.

I also think we need more than a lone moderator. Im sure Kal actually has a life and he cant be here 24/7 to deal with all the ramblings. More are required aswell, who can cover all time zones if possible, or at least one checking in every 2 or so hours max.

People get out of control without adequate supervision. Also, I think you need to make a few examples. Clearly my temporary banning hasn't made any difference to people wanting to bait others into a fight. Onasi should be banned at least temporarily, as that required admin edit demonstrates how low his behaviour has stooped.
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Gavin Onasi
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 29 May 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 02:37pm    Post subject:
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I agree lol, I should be banned right now.... not to be a jerk, im being dead serious
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Alatáriël Pallanén
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 02:41pm    Post subject:
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See! That's the talking I'm talking about. :P

At least you are admitting what you did was out of line, and I think we can all realize that you were stressed and took it out the wrong away. Next time you can disturb me on msn and beat me up over it, instead of yelling and being a *brat* on the forums. Cause you are one of my favorite online friends. :P
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 03:12pm    Post subject:
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If it's a ban you want, a ban you will receive. :p

Seriously, players have the right to request bans or warnings on themselves, be it for disciplinary measures or simply because you need an IP-block-enforced break (seen it happen dozens of times on other boards). But I should warn you that it still counts on your record.
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Han Solo
CMAC Artist


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: Wherever I end up...

 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 03:18pm    Post subject:
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Carlist Rieekan wrote:
Personally, I think the problem is lack of moderation and administration. CMAC has three members, that's clearly not enough to deal with the battlesytem, money issues, design issues etc. etc. More CMAC members are clearly required.

I also think we need more than a lone moderator. Im sure Kal actually has a life and he cant be here 24/7 to deal with all the ramblings. More are required aswell, who can cover all time zones if possible, or at least one checking in every 2 or so hours max.

People get out of control without adequate supervision. Also, I think you need to make a few examples. Clearly my temporary banning hasn't made any difference to people wanting to bait others into a fight. Onasi should be banned at least temporarily, as that required admin edit demonstrates how low his behaviour has stooped.


In all honestly, I feel the size of our administration team is enough to handle a board of this size. We have the three CMAC members(Cray, Ams, and myself) and three other mods/admins on staff(you forgot to mention these :p ), Skirata, Ozzy and Swali. That makes six of us at the moment and currently we're making changes to share the workload and divide issues up equally.

However, I do like the idea of a weekly report about what's going on within the administration. We do something similar on TF.N which highlights technical issues, mod issues and board-wide policies the users need to be aware of. I can talk to the others and see what it is we can come up with. It's really informative for regular users and it helps to bridge the gap between the regular traffic of the forum and what goes on behind the scenes.

Finally, the topic of discipline and banning. Rest assured, everything from yesterday has been handled accordingly. We don't discuss bans or punishments in the open, but it has been handled.

And Cyrus, if there is anything you wish to throw out onto the table for us to discuss, please do so. It's not helping the community or the admins to continue to play this guessing game when obviously you have a problem with something.
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Kalydon Skirata
Aedile


Joined: 29 May 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 03:54pm    Post subject:
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Alex that was a well put post, of which I agree with. :)

@ Rieekan: Yes I do have a life...but my laptop has a wireless connection. :twisted:
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Carlist Rieekan
Master Sergeant


Joined: 30 May 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 05:25pm    Post subject:
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Han Solo wrote:
In all honestly, I feel the size of our administration team is enough to handle a board of this size. We have the three CMAC members(Cray, Ams, and myself) and three other mods/admins on staff(you forgot to mention these :p ), Skirata, Ozzy and Swali. That makes six of us at the moment and currently we're making changes to share the workload and divide issues up equally.

However, I do like the idea of a weekly report about what's going on within the administration. We do something similar on TF.N which highlights technical issues, mod issues and board-wide policies the users need to be aware of. I can talk to the others and see what it is we can come up with. It's really informative for regular users and it helps to bridge the gap between the regular traffic of the forum and what goes on behind the scenes.

Finally, the topic of discipline and banning. Rest assured, everything from yesterday has been handled accordingly. We don't discuss bans or punishments in the open, but it has been handled.

And Cyrus, if there is anything you wish to throw out onto the table for us to discuss, please do so. It's not helping the community or the admins to continue to play this guessing game when obviously you have a problem with something.

No offence, but you'll forgive me for not questioning that. Three admins doesnt seem to be enough, as evidenced by the month long battles and horrendous money issues that still prevail on the site.

The disputes constantly raging all over the board evidence the lack of moderation. No offence intended, but when did you last see Swali on the boards? And when did you last see him on the OOC forums. And when did you last see Ozzy step in to break up a fight? If ever he's in there laughing at people not stopping anything. Kal and you seem to be the only ones doing any kind of moderation, and Moff when it gets severe. Moderation isnt an admin job, nor should it be.

Kalydon Skirata wrote:
@ Rieekan: Yes I do have a life...but my laptop has a wireless connection. :twisted:

LMAO
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Xaph
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 06:56pm    Post subject:
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Quote:

And I believe we are also a community of joking. We all joke around with each other over msn and the various chatting programs, however, its beginning to dip into sarcasms.


If you're so into joking, why did you get pissed off at an IC comment I made, in a conversation *you* initiated?
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Petyr Baelish
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 09:29pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
And when did you last see Ozzy step in to break up a fight?

You do bring up a good point; while I'm not quite as active as I was back in my VII days, I wouldn't consider myself inactive. I visit the board daily, but this time of month (midterms) makes RPing difficult.
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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 09:31pm    Post subject:
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First of all, CMAC isn't going to be expanded, but our duties are going to be delegated more in the future. There's going to be someone allowed to help out with designs sometime in early February and lots of stuff like that.

Secondly, I agree we are somewhat of a weak moderation. The problem is, unlike HG or the JC in Han's case, VIII isn't a big community. We have very few members in comparison and we simply can't afford to ban someone permanently. I think we do the best we can without waving the ban stick pointlessly.

I'd be up for a weekly report.

(also, I'm back now :p)
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Jacen Tranada
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 09:37pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
I'd be up for a weekly report.


The shit have hitteth the fan :P

Welcome Back! :D
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Trassk
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Joined: 10 Oct 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 09:40pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
The shit have hitteth the fan


Taketh cover, men! Lest ye be pelted with globules of wasteth! :P

Quote:
also, I'm back now


Approve my droid. :evil:

:P
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Petyr Baelish
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 09:46pm    Post subject:
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Haha, though humor is appreciated when people are at eachother's throats, let's try and keep it on topic. :P
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Trassk
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 Post Posted: Sun, January 21st 2007 09:53pm    Post subject:
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*is at Ozzy's throat*

:P

Anyway, I'm starting a new plot with Kir that will occupy some of my free time (It involves a female pilot, maybe Force Sensitive, I haven't gotten a reply from Cray yet), and will help develop his character a little more. ;)
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Darth Vader
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 Post Posted: Mon, January 22nd 2007 12:33am    Post subject:
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I called an admin meeting and we have officially dealt with several issues.

Things discussed were:

-Admin responsibilities. Lower-level admin responsibilities are being expanded to include designs and battles. One or two admin/aediles are being assigned to each. Also discussed CMAC's role in moderating the forums. This led to:

-Debate/arguement enforcement protocols. Expect more strictness in the future.

-Faction assets. Pending further discussion, there may be a new rule concerning them.
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