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Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Questions and Suggestions » The Battlesystem
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Volytar
First Sergeant


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 639

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:24pm    Post subject:
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I'm a big fan of both stat-based and freeform RPG, but the simplest method to improve a battle system would be to lower the number of craft under any single persons command, they can then RP their manuevers with a managable number of vessels...CMAC can then act as mediators after every turn of posting to decide the results on common sense basis..a good rper will always beat a bad on...but why are bad rpers in charge of rediculous numbers of ships...

And if you really worry about ship specs...why not make another forum mask that doesn't allow acess to the stats?


Last edited by Volytar on Thu, October 12th 2006 10:26pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:32pm    Post subject:
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Quote:

And if you really worry about ship specs...why not make another forum mask that doesn't allow acess to the stats?


I had that done in VII already. :p
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:44pm    Post subject:
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Well, the thing is... the fleet sizes are normal for SW. The Imperial Fifth, for example, is pretty standard, really, for a canon Imperial Superiority Fleet as far as size goes. It's not so much the SIZE of the fleets that's the issue, we only do five at a time. It's just the system itself is very disorganized, repetitive, and it's a pain to do them (or at least seems to be).
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Ravik Shadowstalker
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 586
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:50pm    Post subject:
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So, Ams, use people you can trust. I'm sure you can name a couple of people out of a hundred that you trust to not cheat off the info.
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Space Jawa
Commander


Joined: 29 May 2006
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 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 11:24pm    Post subject:
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Mini-CMACs (MCMACs).

Pretty much the same thing as a CMAC, but you can prevent them from knowing anything more than they need to.

Quote:
The only catch is CMAC has access to the specifications of every craft in this game. Quite frankly, that's a tempting tidbit of information. While I'm not saying everyone in this game WOULD cheat off that information, I and the other CMAC admins are concerned about the temptation.


Really, while you three may be the owners of the game, it doesn't mean you arn't tempted the same way. You just know how to fight the temptation. And if you can do it, so can others. Like Ravik said, find people you would trust to keep the information secret as much as you trust yourselves.
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Last edited by Space Jawa on Thu, October 12th 2006 11:53pm; edited 1 time in total
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Natalie Pearson
Staff Sergeant


Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 459

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 02:40am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Like Ravik said, find people you would trust to keep the information secret as much as you trust yourselves.


Heh i'm guessing that's why there are still only three. :P
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Kyle Katarn
Lance Corporal


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 126

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 08:14am    Post subject:
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Well, you could have all the "minor" battles being solved between players (ie. you post an order of battle, and if you have say an Imperial fleet of 1 ESD and 20 Akulas facing down a defense fleet composed of an ISD and several smaller craft -> the obvious victor would be the imps). Now, battles where the outcome is extremely obvious, and no amount of "tactics" would work unless you start taking into account one out of a million possibilies (like Luke blowing up the Death Star), can be just simply RP.


Suggestion 1 - Player Modded
One possible suggestion would be to have the players mod. everything. Basically, this would be simple to do if you assigned "damage values" to a single blast of a turbolaser (I assume extrajoules is what is being used currently?) and than have the players themselves substract it from the amount of SBD/RU of a ship. (The defending player will post the casualties, and only if the attack has a problem, will a CMAC be called in) Now, the main problem with this is basically how it would be less of RP, and more of a "damage calculation" and "mini-tactics". However, taking into account the various current battles, they are actually in fact also more of "I fire this via PM" than "I write a long complex page of tactics" (especially since you can only use 5 ships per turn). And besides, let's be serious... there really isn't much you can do in the way of tactics that can help you win STUPENDOUSLY (example: a small fleet of ISDs owning a larger fleet of ESDs). However, in your "attack" and "defense-attack" posts, you could include tactics, and if they do work, you can expect your opponent to recogonize that, and take it into account. However, if your opponent doesn't take into account your "superior" tactics, than you can again bring up the issue with a CMAC.

This will not only ease the burden from the CMACs, but it will also, most of the time, give the players less cause to complain. The one major problem with this is that most of the ship stats will have to be posted. But seriously, unless you have a super-secret-kickass weapon system you want secret, what really is the harm of letting out just a few general informations on your ships?

(Suggested Battle Phases: Enemy Attack 1; Defender Defense 1 (ie. Flee here, there) - Defender Attack 1; Enemey Defense 1 - Enemy Attack 2; Defender Defense 2 - Defender Attack 2 ---> etc. Casualties will be determiend in the defense stages.)


Suggestion 2 - Wing It!
Alright, as horrible as this sounds, perhaps the CMACs could just post the OOBs, and than... wing it! Of course, you'll have to read the actual orders, know the various stats of the ships, but why not just dispense with all those "systems" and instead just go with common sense? Perhaps... in the interest of fairness, one CMAC and atleast on other mod/CMAC will review a battle order and the various forces, and each will individually compile a set piece of results, and than compare. If they are similar enough, than one of them can write out a "battle report", and post it along with the results. What does this save? All those pointless "relistings" of units and the extensive use of calculating systems.
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Jahan Stresemann
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 517
Location: Nespis VIII, Republic of Nespis

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 11:13am    Post subject:
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Righty.

1. Get all the OOBs, and the stats of all the ships.

Say

Akula-class Arsekicker
Akula-class Balance Destroyer

vs

Sovereign-class Not Very Good
Sovereign-class Ozzy Rox

and their stats (let's just say 1000 forward heavy turbos per ship, and 100k SBD)

so that's

Akula-class Arsekicker - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
Akula-class Balance Destroyer - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
vs

Sovereign-class Not Very Good - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
Sovereign-class Ozzy Rox - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers

2. Accuracy of the guns

We can cross a galaxy in days, and build ships that block out the sun. Accuracy doesn't ****ing cause a problem. But nonetheless.

Generate a random number between 25-0. This is the % inaccuracy. Improved targetting systems could half this value, whatever.

For this, 13 is rolled for Arsekicker, 20 for Balance Destroyer, 5 for Not Very Good and 15 for Balance Destroyer.

3. Kampf!

Akula Arsekicker fires! 870 of its shots hit the Not Very Good. The damage of a heavy turbolaser bolt is 30-50 SBD, let's say. So.

Randomise a number from 30-50. Lets say for the Arsekicker, it's 36.

870 x 36 = 31320

Oh noes! Not Very Good took damage, but not before firing back.

The damage for Not Very Good randomises to 48. Gosh!

Inaccuracy is 5%. 950 shots hit the Arsekicker at 48 SBD per shot. 45600 damage.

etc

That exchange took me two minutes to calculate. It's a crude system, I know, but I'm sure your superior CMAC brains could refine it, if you choose to use it.
Code:

1.

Akula-class Arsekicker - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
Akula-class Balance Destroyer - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
vs

Sovereign-class Not Very Good - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
Sovereign-class Ozzy Rox - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers

2.

Generate -

Side A: 13, 20,

Side B: 5, 15

3.

Recieve orders.

Generate -

Side A: 36, 24

Side B: 48, 31

Number of shots hitting x Generated damage = Total Damage

Akula-class Arsekicker - 54,400 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
Akula-class Balance Destroyer - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
vs

Sovereign-class Not Very Good - 68,680 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers
Sovereign-class Ozzy Rox - 100,000 SBD
1000 heavy turbolasers



Continue ad nauseam.

Sorry :P
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Carlist Rieekan
Master Sergeant


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 728

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 11:38am    Post subject:
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What about the very very very old system you used at first with VII? Couldnt you do that with a random number generator instead of dice?
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Alatáriël Pallanén
ECP Member


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 2465

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 11:47am    Post subject:
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Well, generating numbers for 700 ships... for one side...
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Alatáriël Pallanén-Davad
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Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 02:24pm    Post subject:
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The problem with the old dice system is its complexity (the other two don't understand it. :? ) amd it doesn't always seem balanced. There are many small "problems" too (the initiative system would result in about 100 ships being done per "turn" :p, stationary targets can be missed (not THAT unrealistic, but...)).
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Gavin Onasi
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 590

 Post Posted: Fri, October 13th 2006 03:42pm    Post subject:
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I have an idea for solving the admin problem... but I will do it one msn because it involves some secret planning :P
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