}
Main Site Forums Holonet Tools About
Forum Index Rules Log in Search Profile Memberlist Usergroups Log in to check your private messages Register
The Battlesystem
Goto page 1, 2  Next
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Questions and Suggestions » The Battlesystem
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:04pm    Post subject: The Battlesystem
Reply with quote

All right, I'm gonna be honest. For those of you hoping for a long, bloody war... your hopes are probably going to be crushed. Quite frankly, this battlesystem is a royal piece of shit. It's filled with red tape, it's unwieldy, and it can cause some serious problems within CMAC.

Here's how it works... each battle is made up of two threads. One you see, one for CMAC's eyes. Now, the CMAC thread contains your OOB, specs of the combatant vessels, inbound reinforcements (and ETA), and the overall formation of the battle. The public thread has engaged forces across each plane... as visible to the attacker. The players PM their orders, and CMAC processes them. We determine the accuracy of each attack, subtract the damage dealt from the total "health" of the attacked unit, and then send out damage reports. For ion attacks, we have a special tool that generates the ion damage.

It's absolute, **** hell. We all hate it and getting one of us to do one is like pulling teeth. There's so much redundancy and simple pasting of information (not to mention WE must determine accuracy... no dice involved) that it's horrifically monotonous.

Now, many of you complain abuot the speed of CMAC's responses to battle. This is why. So... we're coming to you with an offer: we'll gladly listen to your ideas for a battlesystem that is faster, easier, more enjoyable for everyone, and leaves more RPing space.

The winner... hmm. We'll see what they get. :p
_________________

Supreme Commander of the Central and Southern Galactic Segments, Director of Imperial Intelligence
Expand

Galaxy Map|Board and RPG Rules|Game Guide

"The Preying Mantis often sizes up a potential mate while wearing too much eyeliner..." - Velora

"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:11pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Brent Powell (Ikrit) had a computerized battle system, that I had hours of fun playing with, although I don't think it factors in all the things the CMAC would want it to.
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Gavin Onasi
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 590

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:14pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Well, the CMAC admins can all three agree on results after taking into account: Tactics, Numbers, Ship size, Speed, Accuracy, and profile (how much is shown from a side view). Basically they would agree on the acceptable losses, no calculating stats. Its quick and it will make people happy. It will also add the necessisty for RPing orders and things better as well.

Basically the admins would see: 10 ISD-IIs Vs 10 MC-90s. MC-90s are superior in power. But the Imperial leader used a better strategy etc. Losses: 1 ISD dead, 3 Damaged, 1 MC dead 2 Damaged. The other CMACs would agree or contest. And when it is done, the losses will be posted.
_________________

credits: 34,976,000,000 credits



"This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass."
-Ganner Rhysode
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:17pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Good ideas people... keep them coming. :p
_________________

Supreme Commander of the Central and Southern Galactic Segments, Director of Imperial Intelligence
Expand

Galaxy Map|Board and RPG Rules|Game Guide

"The Preying Mantis often sizes up a potential mate while wearing too much eyeliner..." - Velora

"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Nevin Antilles
CMAC Webmaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1695

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:17pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Quote:
Brent Powell (Ikrit) had a computerized battle system, that I had hours of fun playing with, although I don't think it factors in all the things the CMAC would want it to.


I didn't like it, it was taken from another site, and if anything will take more time for us to use. I think I have the code for it somewhere...thanks for the suggestion though. :D
_________________


Last edited by Nevin Antilles on Thu, October 12th 2006 09:17pm; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Maximillian Corsova
Member


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Yinchorr

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:18pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

There's always the RISK standby - assign a certain number of dice to attack and defense to each ship, assign systems hit for other numbres, then let a program roll the numbers for you.
_________________
Chief Engineer of Yinchorr

"Once you have elimated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

rory says:
I need a name for a research ship.
Dj (I'll die to win, because I was born to lose.) says:
Hmm
Dj (I'll die to win, because I was born to lose.) says:
GPOS
rory says:
... I'm not naming it after Avaritus.
Dj (I'll die to win, because I was born to lose.) says:
Giant Piece of Shit
Dj (I'll die to win, because I was born to lose.) says:
*STAB*
rory says:
*d0dg3!*
rory says:
So quoted.
Dj (I'll die to win, because I was born to lose.) says:
Whore!
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:19pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Too much like the old system. And Max... it doesn't work well with 700 starships. :p
_________________

Supreme Commander of the Central and Southern Galactic Segments, Director of Imperial Intelligence
Expand

Galaxy Map|Board and RPG Rules|Game Guide

"The Preying Mantis often sizes up a potential mate while wearing too much eyeliner..." - Velora

"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:24pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Well.... Here's something first.

We need to establish what EXACTLY is wrong with the old system first

Like... Only 5 ships at a time... That one is annoying, but I don't think it'll be addressed.

But that's not the thing I'm talking about... I just wanted to express my dislike of only 5 ships fireing at a time. :P

What's wrong with the current system in the operation? What specific operation takes the most time, and why? Etc.. Etc...
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:28pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Setting up is a pain and a half. Then, you have to wait for (generally hostile or overeager) people to send in the needed info... then send it back because it's wrong. :p Once you get the right info, you have to plug that into the CMAC thread (a simple copy and paste)... then you use a RAW list with just the ships present, grouped by class now instead of attack order, in the public thread. It's bad on just planetary defenses... let alone fleets of ships with several hundred vessels. Then, you break that up by plane. Then, you get the orders... and process each ship one by one. If that ship attacks multiple targets (*cough cough* :p), it's that much more difficult. Then, we calculate the damage. Just multiplication, really. Finally, we total up the damages and losses for the turn... and turn cold, sterile numbers of figures into pyromanical prose. :p
_________________

Supreme Commander of the Central and Southern Galactic Segments, Director of Imperial Intelligence
Expand

Galaxy Map|Board and RPG Rules|Game Guide

"The Preying Mantis often sizes up a potential mate while wearing too much eyeliner..." - Velora

"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:30pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Quote:
If that ship attacks multiple targets (*cough cough*), it's that much more difficult.


LOL! Sorry... I'll try to simplify my fireing orders in the future, but you can't really blame members for utilizing actual tactics in such fireing. :P
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.


Last edited by James Taggart on Thu, October 12th 2006 09:32pm; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Volytar
First Sergeant


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 639

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:31pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Or we could make like other RP's and do things on the basis of role play rather then figures, if you want a tactical battle system you could allways use the WEG SWRPG one...whcih escapes me this very moment...
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:37pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

It's okay DJ. :p

And Volytar, the problem there is a good RPer could theoretically destroy a fleet of 5000 Executors with a wet noodle if he or she RPed well enough. :p
_________________

Supreme Commander of the Central and Southern Galactic Segments, Director of Imperial Intelligence
Expand

Galaxy Map|Board and RPG Rules|Game Guide

"The Preying Mantis often sizes up a potential mate while wearing too much eyeliner..." - Velora

"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Ferdinand Cartos
Private First Class


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 86
Location: 15th Fleet

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:41pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

*whistles innocently*
_________________
General-Admiral Ferdinand Cartos, Executive Officer of the ESD Chimaera II

"Your intentions, whatever they may be, are irrelevant. The only things that matters is what you did, and what I am going to do to you because of it."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alex - "What are you doing?" "Getting ready to nuke the planet." says:
I have you outnumbered and outgunned 2 to 1, so please go easy on me

Sōsuke [Aizen] says:
"Good evening. This is an Imperial experiment to determine exactly how many turbolaser blasts it takes to completely liquify a planet." *FIRE* "One..."
Supreme Moff Ams Jendob says:
"How many shots does it take to get to the mantle underlayer of a planet, Admiral Cartos?"
"Well, Billy, let's see..."
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Space Jawa
Commander


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1559
Location: Out of my mind...please leave a message

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:45pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

The only method I can think of is to leave most of the battle in the hands of the players. After sending what ships they have to CMAC to clarify what they have, players say which ships fire, say what happens, what gets damaged, how much damage, and so on in a method no too unlike the method used for character battles. Basically, trust the players not to godmod, and revise/delete posts that are unrealistic or push the boundries of what you think is doable. If the players do what they're suppose to, eventually one side will realize they can't possible do anything that would prevent them from loosing, and either blow up their own ships (from being shot at) or retreat.

Unfortunetly, I think my idea also leave too much open to truly be feasable. People will more likely than not be inclined to abuse their trust in a push to win, battles may be more unrealistic, and godmodding might reign supreme. The last one, though, you could simply let the other side decide the whole battle if that happens too much, however. Still, it's just an idea, and one that while I'd like it to work, I admitibly find unusable.
_________________
Drake IMM-3

Assets:
3,054,300 Credits
Modifications
YKL-37R Nova Courier Schizophrenia
Stuff abord the Schizophrenia


------------------------------------------------

Star Wars: It doesn't have to make any sense!
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:47pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

The CMAC would ban people on the spot after snapping from seeing the second/third godmodding post.
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Ravik Shadowstalker
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 586
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:52pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Yeah, I see this going down.

Player 1- "I have 50 ships, you have 500, but I have 2 more years of experience and I'm <insert race here>. Can I win with minimal losses?"

Player 2- "No."

Player 1- "N00B, you're god modding!"
_________________
Galactic Empire
ISB Director Ravik Shadowstalker




595,000 credits.
3,800 Creds a week.

"The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able function as a soldier is supposed to function.Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it"



Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Kel
Corporal


Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 225

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:53pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Well, I have a battle system planned out though it seems most the people in SWVIII seem to ignore me. So what the hell, your loss....
_________________
Lak'el'Nuruodo
Chiss Imperium

Imperator of the Chiss Imperium


Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito


Xaph/Kel Chat - Chiss Problems

Xaph -=- STEVE IRWIN RIP said:
No big plagues?
Xaph -=- STEVE IRWIN RIP said:
Major invasions?
Xaph -=- STEVE IRWIN RIP said:
New STD's?
Tyler said:
bbl
Xaph -=- STEVE IRWIN RIP said:
Ah
Xaph -=- STEVE IRWIN RIP said:
And this, bbl...
Xaph -=- STEVE IRWIN RIP said:
is it dangerous?
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Space Jawa
Commander


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1559
Location: Out of my mind...please leave a message

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:56pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

You can't even suggest it first?
_________________
Drake IMM-3

Assets:
3,054,300 Credits
Modifications
YKL-37R Nova Courier Schizophrenia
Stuff abord the Schizophrenia


------------------------------------------------

Star Wars: It doesn't have to make any sense!
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:56pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Now that's just acting like a child.

I'm sure if you have something usefull to say, someone will pay attention. You only posted that because you're unhappy with people, and it doesn't help the thread at all.

Now if you have a plausable system, then let's hear it.
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Nubis Serin
Thread Killer


Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 183

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 09:57pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

How to improve the battle system? Get rid of it.

Okay not really. I just wanted to see some jaws drop. At any rate, my first suggestion is to simplify the whole process by decreasing the number of ships out there. It's just simply rediculous to have 700 ships in an engagement just because Joe Schmo had the credits. If we make the market smaller, the number crunching is smaller.

Second, I believe you need more hands on deck in CMAC. Three people just doesn't cut it as this game continues to grow. You're all complaining about being tired, bored, busy, and the like. Solution? More help.

Third, return the focus to roleplaying. As you say it could be easy for an experienced roleplayer to take out 5,000 ships with a wet noodle, what's to stop someone who doesn't know a damn thing about what their doing from destroying 5,000 ships just because they have 10,000? Think about which you would rather encourage. Better roleplaying or better credit managment? Of course, it's up to how CMAC wants the game to evolve.

Fourth, simplify what does what. We don't need to be figuring out accuracy for each laser's pimple or planes, etc. There's an attack and there's a defense. Things like speed and maneuverabilty should only affect the most dire of circumstances. I imagine ships being assigned an attack and defense die based on their stats. An ESD with an attack of 10 and defense of 8, hypothetically. Against an MC90 with an attack of 8 and defense of 7. If the pencil and paper games can make it easy, so can VIII.

Last, more combat across the board. I think part of the reason for the slow nature of battles in this game is due to everyone's (non-CMAC) inexperience with them. We simply don't fight enough in Star Wars. And personally, I believe that stems from people's inability to cope with their silvery spaceships being lost. Or even their characters. Now we can't expect people to act like perfect little angels, but I think the egos need to be checked at the login screen.

I gave myself a headache. I need some intrigue ... excuse me.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:00pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Even though it might be rediculous for 700 ships to be in a fleet, it's realistic. Hell, in World War II, the Seventh Fleet had over 700 ships at the battle of leyte gulf.
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.


Last edited by James Taggart on Thu, October 12th 2006 10:03pm; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Nubis Serin
Thread Killer


Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 183

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:04pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

James Taggart wrote:
Even though it might be rediculous for 700 ships to be in a fleet, it's realistic. Hell, in World War II, the Seventh Fleet had over 700 ships.

EDIT: I think it was the Seventh... I saw it on the history channel. :P


It's not my point. My point is that because this is a text-RPG, there's a certain level of realism which draws the line. Each of those ships had a captain. We typically have one person controlling the madness. Let's talk about realism.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
James Taggart
Lance Corporal


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 135

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:05pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Indeed, that's a problem.

Also, I agree on your point with the CMAC, but there's a very limited amount of people that could probably do/handle a position in the CMAC.
_________________
Commander of The Imperial Fifth Fleet -- Executor-class Star Dreadnought Hell's Forge

---
Rory says:
... if you say I have a short temper one more time, I'll strangle you with a rope I will force you to braid using your own pubic hairs.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Ravik Shadowstalker
Sergeant First Class


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 586
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:07pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

No, its plausible in one or two battle, here and there. But when you have a feeling of, "Meh, 700 ships there, a thousand here, no biggie" is when things are very, very unrealistic. Even on a galactic scale, you got to remember, ships aren't the same size as modern ships, so there are a lot more people on one.

And yeah, Nubis is right and its been said for a while, you guys need more CMAC now. Yes, 3 people may be able to manage 15 unique players needs, but we have about 100 people. Of couse, some of those are the same person, but either way, you need more people to delegate more systems. And hey, delegating is a great idea too! The CMAC doesn't have to manage every battle, have other people specialize in it, and thats their admin power. They manage battles. Then have certain people manage god modding and advertising, etc. The CMAC should be making the rules that the more specialized people follow, and when theres a very complicated thing, THEN they take over and handle the whole thing.

EDIT: Again (after reading Taggart), you don't need 3 or however people to do EVERY task. Have certain people who handle one type of task.
_________________
Galactic Empire
ISB Director Ravik Shadowstalker




595,000 credits.
3,800 Creds a week.

"The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able function as a soldier is supposed to function.Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends upon it"



Ronald Spiers: I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd hear a couple centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped off the heads of some Carthaginian prisoners.

Carwood Lipton: Well, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it.

Ronald Spiers: Maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion.


Last edited by Ravik Shadowstalker on Thu, October 12th 2006 10:09pm; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Ams Jendob
CMAC Battlemaster


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8644
Location: Coruscant

 Post Posted: Thu, October 12th 2006 10:14pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

The only catch is CMAC has access to the specifications of every craft in this game. Quite frankly, that's a tempting tidbit of information. While I'm not saying everyone in this game WOULD cheat off that information, I and the other CMAC admins are concerned about the temptation.
_________________

Supreme Commander of the Central and Southern Galactic Segments, Director of Imperial Intelligence
Expand

Galaxy Map|Board and RPG Rules|Game Guide

"The Preying Mantis often sizes up a potential mate while wearing too much eyeliner..." - Velora

"You are so cool, you make James Bond proud..." - My Dad... sarcastically. Don't try to juggle cutlery. :p
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Star Wars: Episode VIII: Binds of Tyranny Forum Index » Questions and Suggestions » The Battlesystem
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum